Re: Course and MW and MWPro

[WendyPetti@xxxx]

Hello, MWcybercourse folks,

I received a message tonight from Daniel Zeldes, a member of the 
MWcybercourse group. Although he wrote to me directly and not to the group, 
I am taking the liberty of posting his message and my responses to the group 
(see below), because I think his questions are of general interest to this 
group. I hope some of you will also reply with your opinions on his second 
question.

Before we get to his letter below, let me also say that I realized today that 
about 20% of the members of this group are not members of the LogoForum and 
therefore have not been reading the LogoForum messages related to the 
cybercourse (unless they have followed the discussion through the 
comp.lang.logo newsgroup). When I get a chance, I will post a summary of 
those messages to this group.

Now here is Daniel's message (2 questions) and my responses:

In a message dated 3/1/01 11:43:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
d_zeldes@xxxx writes:

> Hellow Wendy,
> Question:
> Do projects in MW work on MWPro environment and vise versa,
> Because I started to learn microworldsPro and hope to learn and contribute 
> to the cybercourse.
> I had difficulty to get answers to my MWPro questions while my MSWLogo 
> questions were always answered on the spot.

In all cases, MicroWorlds projects can be viewed with MW Pro, but the MW Pro 
project viewing area is generally smaller than that of the MicroWorlds 
projects, so you may find that you have to use the scroll bars to view the 
entire project. It may help to drag the right and lower edges of the project 
area to maximize viewing. But if you plan to spend much time working with 
such a project, it might be worthwhile to relocate buttons, shrink graphics, 
etc., to make a better fit.

In almost all cases, MW Pro projects can be viewed with MicroWorlds 2.0 
(including 2.01, 2.02, 2.03, etc.). I think it might not work to view later 
versions with MW 1.0. If anyone here is using MW 1.0, it is DEFINITELY time 
for an upgrade!! There is one possible difficulty with viewing MW Pro 
projects using MicroWorlds 2.0: There are twice as many shapes in the MWPro 
shapes center as in the MW shapes center. And the shapes are different. So 
if you are using the shapes which come with MWPro, please realize that 
MicroWorlds users might see different shapes when they open your project. 
And they might not be able to see all of your shapes. If you want to be sure 
that a project is fully compatible with all versions of MicroWorlds 2.0 and 
higher, then please limit yourself to the first 64 shapes in MWPro. You can 
certainly modify the shapes, or copy and paste higher-number shapes into 
lower-number locations. But even still, MicroWorlds users might see 
different shapes unless you change at least one pixel of the original MW Pro 
shapes that you need for your project. If you change at least one pixel, it 
will become a "new" shape and will be viewable in all versions.

Another thing to keep in mind is that Mac users can convert PC MicroWorlds 
projects to the Mac version, and can convert Mac projects to PC, but PC users 
cannot do this conversion. So if you have created projects on a Mac which 
you want to share with all users, it is best to convert them to PC. 
Instructions come with the Mac version.

You also need to consider screen resolution. If you use an 800 x 600 screen 
resolution, then your projects will not fit properly on monitors set to a 
640 x 480 resolution. The buttons and sliders near the right and bottom 
edges of your project will get bunched together in another corner. So it is 
a good idea to build projects with a smaller page size, to be sure that 
anyone viewing them will be able to see the whole project. And the LCSI 
people recommend using a project area no bigger than 400 x 300 pixels, 
because many browser windows are considerably smaller than the full screen... 
and also the file size will be smaller. (However, I tend to use 500 x 300 or 
550 x 350 on my projects, because 400 x 300 is SO small.) You can only 
change the project size when you are first starting a new project. You type 
the command:

newprojectsize [500 300]

or whatever dimensions you want.

If you've already created a project and want to make it smaller, on a PC you 
can do this with the merge command, but as I recall, on a Mac you cannot 
merge projects of different sizes. If you do a merge on PC, you'll then need 
to rearrange the buttons, etc., for your new layout. You need to remember to 
merge the procedures, shapes, and pages; the info is in the help menus. Let 
me know if you need more help with that.

And finally, a couple of other things to keep in mind about compatibility:

* The Mac version uses a larger font size in announce boxes and question 
boxes. If you type a lengthy announcement or question in the PC version and 
post your project online (or send it to a Mac user), the Mac user may not be 
able to read the full text. Those announce and question boxes don't 
scroll... they just cut the text off when they run out of room. So keep 
things simple!

* Projects created in MW Pro require the most current version of the 
MicroWorlds Web Player (plug-in) in order to be viewed and used on the web... 
at least, if they use more than the first 64 shapes, and maybe in all cases. 
Some people are still using the older version which only works with 
MicroWorlds 2.0 projects. Since I have both versions on my machine, I make a 
point of saving my projects with MW 2.0 before posting them to the Web so 
that my projects will run with the older plug-in, too. (I know that everyone 
should just update their plug-in, but some people have had a lot of 
difficulty with that process.)

And I'm sorry you have not had much luck in getting your MW Pro questions 
answered on the LogoForum. The most active members of the LogoForum do seem 
more familiar with MSWLogo. Your question #2 below is relevant here...

> Question 2
> If the course will be a website, then will it have in it a place to post 
> questions regarding the projects in the site? or infact any MW question?

This is a very good question, and I don't know the answer. I hope some other 
members of MWcybercourse will give their opinions. Questions could be 
potentially handled in a variety of ways:

1) There could be a question form which would get sent to the person in 
charge of the site. That person could attempt to answer all questions, but 
that places an undue burden on one person, and it can be helpful to get a 
variety of responses to a question.

2) A question form could be sent to the person in charge of the site, who 
could then forward it on to the MWcybercourse folks, and one or more members 
of this group could step forward to answer the question.

3) Possibly there could be a question board on the site where anyone 
could freely post questions and answers, but we'd have to be careful about 
this. We have not specified our target audience here, but I am hoping that 
it will include children as well as adults. And sites which encourage visits 
from children have a legal obligation to protect those children from 
revealing identifying information about themselves on the site. That usually 
means that somebody should screen the questions and answers first instead of 
having them get automatically posted. I'm sure there are sites which don't 
do this even though they receive child visitors, but they are leaving 
themselves open to possible sanctions, because there is a very detailed 
"Children's Online Privacy Protection Act" (COPPA) which spells out the steps 
that need to be taken to protect kids' privacy online. 
And another consideration is that kids will be kids, and sometimes they 
purposely write very silly or obnoxious things simply for the pleasure of 
seeing them get instantly posted for the whole world to see. So that would 
be another reason for screening questions before posting them.

4) Another thing to keep in mind is that some kids have had it drummed 
into them that they must not divulge anything to strangers, including their 
e-mail address. So if a student asks a question using a form, and does not 
include an e-mail address, then there is no way to reply except by posting 
the answer on the site... and there is no assurance that the student will 
come back to view the answer at a later time. But I'm not very concerned 
about that. If they really want an answer, they'll be back.

5) other ideas???????

> Thank you,
> Daniel
> 
> P.S. I enjoy very much the heat and intensity of the discussions about the 
> course. I sometimes wander how come so many people have the time and the 
will 
> to sit and write so many long long letters (sometimes in the strangest hour 
> of the night). For me typing is very slow. I hope to improve quickly.
> 
> Goodbye again,
> Daniel

Daniel, I'm one of those people who sometimes writes long letters at strange 
hours, like right now, but in my case I do type as fast as I think (sometimes 
faster, which is why sometimes it comes out muddled!), and late at night is 
the best time for me to work. But I'd just like to say that it is the 
wonderful generosity of the folks on the LogoForum, over a period of many 
years, who have helped me to become an avid user of Logo (specifically, in my 
case, MicroWorlds). And it is thanks to all those people who gave of their 
knowledge so freely that I decided to try to do the same, in setting up my 
Math Cats site and now in starting to organize the MW cybercourse. I think 
that everyone who shares their knowledge on the LogoForum, and now on this 
MWcybercourse list, does so because they truly love Logo, they know there's a 
learning curve involved, and they want to help others over some of the rough 
spots so that the learning experience can be as rewarding as possible.

Wendy